Mexico Immigration

[beth]

Other Top Stories:
Re: Patriotism a Dirty Word in America Today Re: Easy but Tasty Broccoli Re: Easy but Tasty Broccoli Easy but Tasty Broccoli Re: What if Hurricane Dean hits New Orleans? Powered by: The Daily Planet

Most mornings on my commute to work I listen to "The Murphy in The Morning Show." Today was no different, I've been doing so for so many years, I feel like I practically know every thing about Jack, and the other Djs on the show. This mornings topic, was Immigration. Undoubtedly this was expected since it's probably the most prominent news story in the US right now. I realize Jack Murphy, the shows host is a bit conservative, and yes maybe even republican. This is to be expected since I'm sure he makes in excess of 6 digits a year, and has previously boasted how he drives his Hummer. Still I was surprised at the overall number of callers who called in supporting his pro-communist, keep the "wetbacks" out philosophy. When several individuals called in trying to explain the situation, he was unwilling to even listen, or contemplate a compromise. While I did find Josh's recommendation of building 2 fences and letting pit-bulls roam in between them, amusing... no one on the show has the education, real-life experience, nor compassion to even basically debate immigration. Technically this goes for 90% of America in my opinion.

First and foremost, you want a simple answer? Lets ask first and second generation Hispanic, and Mexican citizens what they feel should be the best choice for America. I would think of anyone, they could probably base their decisions with more understanding, and real-life experience then any of us decade old descendants of immigrants could understand.

The plain and simple fact is this. When people state their opinion, they often don't consider humanity. Or should I say being humane? Let me ask this, of any of us natural-borns.... If I told you, at this moment your wife, or husband had to return to where-ever your family descended from, but you and your children could stay, what would you do? What if your here illegal, and your children were born here. What if Mexico won't accept your children, and yet America won't accept you? I don't care who you are, and what you currently think you know... You would without a doubt would have your life destroyed by this law.

Sure you want to say, well we have to end illegal immigration right? No what we need to do is be good neighbors to our Mexican friends and do whatever we need, despite its cost to take care of one another. We are not animals, we do not need to be king of the mountain, or be the last man standing. It's not the Mexicans that people fear, but that we, as the richest, fattest, most possession rich country in the world's history, might have to give something up in order to lend a helping hand to our brothers and sisters.

Just remember this, in the next life it could be you being born on the other-side of the immigration fence.

[jw]

"I realize Jack Murphy, the shows host is a bit conservative, and yes maybe even republican. "

"bit conservative"????? "maybe even republican"?????

He use to live in my neighborhood. Honey, you've never been known for understatement. Don't fail me now.

The problem with illegal immigration will end with rich, white guys quit getting richer off the backs of immigrants.

Did I tell you before how much I love the smileys?

[Matt]

I heard the same. And Murphy does like to over-compensate a position to create drama. Then again, Beth does the same on this site from time to time.

Much of immigration boils down to money. Tax payers do not want to support people who are not supposed to be here. The general veiw is this: If someone decided to squat in my house uninvited, I certainly would not want to pay for them.

Of course it's not that simple.

Here's my solution, or at least part of it.

Raise the number of allowable immigrants per year to X. I'm not sure what that appropriate amount is but let's just go with it for now.

Take the estimated cost of illegal immigrants for a year and divide that by the number of new immigrant applications. That figure is the tax a new immigrant must pay over 5 years prior to getting full citizenship. Credits toward that tax can be earned by learning things to help them become better citizens such as additional language education (which minimal command of English should be required to start with), laws, U.S. history, etc. Volunteering in the community using their skills, being part of neighborhood watch programs. Those credits can be taken away for arrests, traffic citations, etc. Bascially the tax can be eliminated if the immigrant works hard enough. Notice that these opportunites for credits are things many immigrants who work hard already do.

Bascially it forces the money burden of illegals onto the legal immigrants. This will put pressure on the illegals from within their own groups. Those who want to make an honest effort to become good citizens get a fair opportunity to do so virtually free. And the current citizens don't have to pay the entire cost.

I also think pressure should be put on Mexico to not have such a shitty life for their people. But that's another issue.

[beth]

Juan from Waiting for Vizzini says individuals who are anti-immigration, are Un-American.

The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
-Emma Lazarus

I agree. This country was founded on the weird, the dumb, the ugly, the stupid, the poor, the wretched, the thief, the sinner, the outcast, and most importantly the immigrant. It is without a doubt the only reason we exist as a country, and the only reason we should continue to persist as the country of freedom and justice for all.

[banjoboy]

Jeezus, Beth. I thought you were smarter than that. The Murphy Show is probably lowering your i.q. a hundred points every morning.

[Matt]

Jeezus, Beth. I thought you were smarter than that. The Murphy Show is probably lowering your i.q. a hundred points every morning.

There's no other decent local morning show. Except maybe 101.1 , but I need a little music mixed into my commute.

[beth]

I've listened to 107.5 since like 1988, except that brief interlude when I moved to California for 5-6 years. Back when I was super-Christian, as unbelievable as it sounds, I listened to the station because it was Adult Contemporary (Like Amy Grant...[in her religious days]) .... (I know, gag me with a spoon) and was void of bad language and Rob Zombie....

I still enjoy the show, and prior to the job I have now, I spent most of my time driving all day, and got to re-experience all the morning shows. I still find his the most entertaining, but quite often, ironically right-winged, although I'm smart enough to tell much of it is satire.

After 10AM, I generally listen to NPR. Some days I just get my fill of intellectual reporting, and news, and want to hear some music, I generally listen to 102 Jamz, or flip the channels. I used to listen to Rock 92, but there format seems to have changed, (is it even Rock 92 anymore?)

[beth]

I thought Shannon wrote an excellent post on Immigration. Everyone knows my opinion on the whole thing, I just don't understand why we can't figure this thing out without destroying peoples lives. Anyways, I came across these pictures while surfing the internet. There from a site called Arizona Border Watch, and I assume they are posted to support their position on tightened border control. I think it does exactly the opposite, since it shows how desperately these people need a safe and free open border. But despite our differences, they give us Americans a look at the desperation, pain, and anguish Mexican immigrants face. Are they real? Who knows.

[Matt]

That's a terrible way to die.

As I see it, we have 2 options:

1) Build a huge freaking wall that goes deep into the ground to control the border better (put the damn prisoners, of all races, to work). It can't believe it would be any uglier than the corragated tin that is used as a wall in some parts now. Levy fines against companies caught with illegals to help fund the wall. But that's a lot of land to cover.

2) Increase the number of legal immigrants and find a way to tax them so they help pay for illegal immigration costs. This will also help the legal immigrants put pressure on the illegals. Not a huge tax...maybe 10%. Let it go toward extra 5% of SS payouts later on.

[beth]

Increase the number of legal immigrants and find a way to tax them so they help pay for illegal immigration costs. This will also help the legal immigrants put pressure on the illegals. Not a huge tax...maybe 10%. Let it go toward extra 5% of SS payouts later on.

Thats kinda my thinking. Well, actually I think we should have a free border, but I doubt that will ever be accepted by most Americans. My compromise is give those immigrants the ability to pay for there citizenship by working here, allow their taxes to absorb any additional cost on the American public, then say after a certain amount of time, oh say 5 years and after they've obtained citizenship, return there tax rate to that of a normal American. Most immigrants would still end up making more money then they do in Mexico, and it would provide them the ability to attain citizenship.

[TACOMA]

Folks, the middle class working people will pay for President Bush's plan."GEST WORKERS".

Soon Congress will vote and they will free the illegals to take the "JOBS AMERICAN'S WILL NOT DO". It's so nice to hear that form our President. No wonder his ratings are at 32.

I do believe he will go down as America's worst President.

[Matt]

Thats kinda my thinking. Well, actually I think we should have a free border, but I doubt that will ever be accepted by most Americans. My compromise is give those immigrants the ability to pay for there citizenship by working here, allow their taxes to absorb any additional cost on the American public, then say after a certain amount of time, oh say 5 years and after they've obtained citizenship, return there tax rate to that of a normal American. Most immigrants would still end up making more money then they do in Mexico, and it would provide them the ability to attain citizenship.

I really think that's the answer here (well...not the opening the border part but it's a start). I think you'd here a lot less objection if cost wasn't such a big issue.

Make the tax a variable rate. If the estimated cost to pay for immigration goes up, so does the tax on the immmigrants. Make it so the tax can only be changed like every 2 years or so. That will reduce the record keeping costs.

Another idea: Levy tariffs or some sort of fee from the country the people are coming from. That goes against NAFTA but it sends a message to countries like Mexico.

[beth]

Here's my idea:

Where are all the baby boomers going to retire at? Florida's full. Lets tear down the border, annex mexico and turn it into one big Florida 2? Nice Resorts, and a Disney Mexicanos that instead of tea cups has rotating sombraros!

[minuteman]

Jose Osuna, Mexican Consul General: "We are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California."

Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council: "They're afraid we're going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right. We will take them over... We are here to stay."

These are just a couple of instances of the attitude of these people. They are not immigrants. They are illegal aliens, by definition. Immigration involves a process and eventually you have to embrace the US as your new country. They don't want that. They are "Reconquistadors". Conquerers. You can't be a conquerer and want to be part of this country. You're being taken and deluding yourself as to their intentions. It does a disservice to the legal immigrants that have gone through the legal process, such as your grandparents, etc..

[JQPublic]

Beth, how can you be against the war in Iraq and for illegal immigration?

Personally, I think the chaste system in Mexico is a form of slavery. Those immigrants, illegal or not, come here for a decent way of life and to bring up their children in a good environment. They end up sending most of their money back to Mexico to pay the people who helped them get here.

I lived in Dallas for a couple of years, and there was one event that led me to think there is some type of almost "slave trade" going on. It was when an 18-wheel trailer was found on the side of the road somewhere between Dallas and Houston. Inside the trailer were found around 18 bodies of hispanics that had died from the heat and mal-nourishment. Apparently they had been locked in the back and couldn't get out, and the driver simply unhitched the trailer and took off for some reason. Of course, the driver already had all the money from bringing them over, so why not leave right?

See this for what it is.

[Matt]

Illegal is illegal. That's what bothers me the most about all this.

I don't like the idea of a group thinking they can hold the country hostage with denial of service. They are illegal. Who are they to have any voice about our laws?

So fine, don't contribute, and don't come and live here. I garuntee the U.S. will adapt. It won't be a pleasant transition, but after a few years, the economy and way of life will evolve. So we'll have to a few more things ourselves.

A little manual labor is good for you. The nation and economy is too large to be shut down by one group. We will adapt and overcome.

[JQPublic]

Illegal is illegal. That's what bothers me the most about all this.

I don't like the idea of a group thinking they can hold the country hostage with denial of service. They are illegal. Who are they to have any voice about our laws?

So fine, don't contribute, and don't come and live here. I garuntee the U.S. will adapt. It won't be a pleasant transition, but after a few years, the economy and way of life will evolve. So we'll have to a few more things ourselves.

A little manual labor is good for you. The nation and economy is too large to be shut down by one group. We will adapt and overcome.

I agree we would adapt. Whether it be by creating new machines and robotics to do the jobs, our economy would still prosper.

Applying our rule of law to situations of international exposure is a form of imperialism to me. Whether it be applying civil rights to illegal immigrants, or to detainees at Guantanomo Bay, its still a form of grass roots judicial activism.

I hope and pray that we can get things in the immigration Services straightened out soon. I think most of the illegal immigrants are good people. But they are not entitled to the rule of law unless they become American citizens.

[beth]

Beth, how can you be against the war in Iraq and for illegal immigration?

Iraq = Immigration

I don't see how the two are in any which way related.

[beth]

Who are they to have any voice about our laws?

They are the people who are governed by them, so obviously they should have a great deal to say.

[Matt]

Who are they to have any voice about our laws?

They are the people who are governed by them, so obviously they should have a great deal to say.

They only fall under our umbrella because they got into the country illegally. The only way they should have a say in our laws is by voting.

They can only do that if they are citizens, legal citizens.

Anyway you slice, any justification you give, it boils down to they are here illegally and should not be here.

[Sebeq]

I made a comment earlier (on another string) about how hard working Hispanic immigrants are and that I enjoyed working with Hispanic immigrants.

Beth, I'm glad you showed those photos because that is the stark reality of the Mexican. It made my stomach churn and being in my area of study; it shouldn't because I've seen it one hundred times. I guess it's not just another dead body when you realize how they got that way in the first place. Oddly enough, we complain about Bush and our government but these people are literally dying to get over here. Maybe we don’t have it so bad huh?

Unfortunately, Mexico's government is even more corrupt than our own. In the past, when a Mexican president left office or was deposed, he was allowed to clean out the coffers of the country and as long as he never showed his face in Mexico again, he wasn't subject to arrest.

I learned this from one of my esteemed Anthropology professors who worked in Mexico. He would also hire looters to work on his digs because they knew where tombs where. His thinking was that if he gave them legit jobs, they would stop looting - not to mention they had invaluable information. Mexicans resorted to looting because they had no money for food. Imagine selling your country's rich heritage because you need to put food on the table. It would be like having to sell the Declaration of Independence to buy a slice of pizza and coke – that you shared with your three other family members.

Annexing Mexico might be a great idea (MexoAmerica). We could truly help them rebuild their government structure – they could sort of retain independence, but we could all travel freely border to border. But, how can we help another country when clearly we have so many problems within our own? Mexico IS a beautiful country though, I could picture myself moving to Ixtapa. I hear no one shoots guns there or pees on your front lawn.

[JQPublic]

Beth, how can you be against the war in Iraq and for illegal immigration?

Iraq = Immigration

I don't see how the two are in any which way related.

We are illegally in Iraq, illegal immigrants are here illegally.

The meat of what I was getting at is that illegal immigration has its own little slave trade routes.

[beth]

The immigration debate blows up when the Pilgrims protest limitations to their rights in America

English Immigration

[TACOMA]

The Parable of the Old Man, The Boy, and The Donkey
There was an old man, a boy and a donkey. They were going to town and the boy was riding the donkey, with the old man walking alongside.

As they rambled along, they passed some old women sitting in the shade. One of the women called out, ''Shame on you, a great lump of a boy, riding while your old father is walking."

The man and boy decided that maybe the critics were right so they changed positions.

Later they ambled by a group of mothers watching their young children play by the river. One cried out in protest, "How could you make your little boy walk in the hot sun while you ride!"

The two travellers decided that maybe they both should walk.

Next they met some young men out for a stroll.

"How stupid you are to walk when you have a perfectly good donkey to ride!" one yelled derisively.


So both father and son clambered onto the donkey, deciding they both should ride.

They were soon settled and underway again. They next encountered some children who were on their way home from school.

One girl shouted, "How mean to put such a load on a poor little animal."

The old man and the boy saw no alternative. Maybe the critics were right. They now struggled to carry the donkey.

As they crossed a bridge, they lost their grip on the confused animal and he fell to his death in the river.

And the moral, of course, is that if you try to please everyone you will never know what to do, it will be hard to get anywhere, you will please no-one, not even yourself, and you will probably lose everything."

Gonads are severely lacking not only in our elected officials but the public as well. At some point one plus one needs to again equal two and only two. As long as all principles that this nation was founded on continues to "be subject to interpretation" and not taken, accepted, and acted on precisely as they were written, this downhill slide will continue.

[beth]

I'm sure that those of you against illegal immigration are going to love this video. This guy?
100% Total Jerk.