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Sergius and Bacchus, Christianity's First Gay Marriage.

Or Allah for that matter?

Postby Liv » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:16 pm

SerBac.jpg
I'm watching a documentary called "I can't marry you." They interview an author in the movie who mentions Sergius and Bacchus. I've never heard of these guys. Apparently sometime around 300AD two Roman soldiers named Sergius and Bacchus who coincidentally were apparently & obviously gay converted to Christianity and then got married.
The next time someone suggests Christianity is against gay marriage, you can ask them to shove their bible up their...

Sergius and Bacchus were soldiers in the Roman army, attached to the household of the Emperor Maximilian.They were Christians. And they were lovers.

But it was not for their sexuality these young men were canonized.It was for their faith -- one of history's most poignant ironies, given the church's unflinching campaign against gay love.When ordered to enter the Temple of Jupiter to participate in a sacrificial ceremony to the god, they refused.

Sergius's faith faltered with the death of his lover, but was reinforced when Bacchus appeared to him in a vision saying, "I am still with you in the bond of our union." Sergius kept the faith; after torture, he was beheaded on October 7th AD290. Like his lover, he died a martyr to the new religion.


You learn something everyday around here.
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Postby Matt » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:29 pm

interesting. But what's the bible connection?
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:41 pm

Liv, where does this information come from? Just curious.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:41 pm

Liv wrote:
SerBac.jpg
I'm watching a documentary called "I can't marry you." They interview an author in the movie who mentions Sergius and Bacchus. I've never heard of these guys. Apparently sometime around 300AD two Roman soldiers named Sergius and Bacchus who coincidentally were apparently & obviously gay converted to Christianity and then got married.
The next time someone suggests Christianity is against gay marriage, you can ask them to shove their bible up their...

Sergius and Bacchus were soldiers in the Roman army, attached to the household of the Emperor Maximilian.They were Christians. And they were lovers.

But it was not for their sexuality these young men were canonized.It was for their faith -- one of history's most poignant ironies, given the church's unflinching campaign against gay love.When ordered to enter the Temple of Jupiter to participate in a sacrificial ceremony to the god, they refused.

Sergius's faith faltered with the death of his lover, but was reinforced when Bacchus appeared to him in a vision saying, "I am still with you in the bond of our union." Sergius kept the faith; after torture, he was beheaded on October 7th AD290. Like his lover, he died a martyr to the new religion.


You learn something everyday around here.


That ain't Christianity. When you die it isn't biblical to come back to people in visions. Satan might harness those visions though.
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Postby Liv » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:05 pm

That quote, which I managed to forget to notate is:
http://www.pnc.com.au/~voyager/voyagerfiles/saints.html

Simply google for more..

So Jonathan and David made a solemn compact because each loved the other as dearly as himself.
Jonathan pledged himself afresh to David because of his love for him, for he loved him as himself.

---the Lord stand witness between us forever to the pledges we have exchanged.

Then they kissed one another and shed tears together…

O Jonathan, laid low in death!
I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother;
dear and delightful you were to me;
your love for me was wonderful,
surpassing the love of women.

- Bible; books of Samuel -

VIA
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Postby Matt » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:43 pm

well they said some versus but that doesn't make their relationship biblical. unless I'm missing your meaning.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:50 pm

Liv wrote:That quote, which I managed to forget to notate is:
http://www.pnc.com.au/~voyager/voyagerfiles/saints.html

Simply google for more..

So Jonathan and David made a solemn compact because each loved the other as dearly as himself.
Jonathan pledged himself afresh to David because of his love for him, for he loved him as himself.

---the Lord stand witness between us forever to the pledges we have exchanged.

Then they kissed one another and shed tears together…

O Jonathan, laid low in death!
I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother;
dear and delightful you were to me;
your love for me was wonderful,
surpassing the love of women.

- Bible; books of Samuel -

VIA


Agape love.
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Postby Liv » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:29 pm

Not.
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Postby A Person » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:44 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:
That ain't Christianity. When you die it isn't biblical to come back to people in visions. Satan might harness those visions though.


1 Samuel 28

28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
28:10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. Saul and the Witch of Endor
28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:05 am

A Person wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:
That ain't Christianity. When you die it isn't biblical to come back to people in visions. Satan might harness those visions though.


1 Samuel 28

28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
28:10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. Saul and the Witch of Endor
28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.


Uh... where's the vision?
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:06 am

Liv wrote:Not.


Agape love.
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Postby A Person » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:23 am

BecauseHeLives wrote:Uh... where's the vision?


28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city.
...
28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do


Samuel was dead. Samuel appears to Saul. Just one example of a dead person appearing to a living person in a vision.
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Postby Matt » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:41 am

still don't see the direct connection between the bible and the brokeback gladiators.
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Postby Liv » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:12 am

Matt wrote:brokeback gladiators.


Cute....
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Postby Liv » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:24 am

Matt wrote:still don't see the direct connection between the bible


Until the fourteenth century, when, he alleges, Christian societies developed an "obsessive" fear of homosexuality and condemned it as the most horrible of sins, the Church employed the rite of adelphopoiesis as a way of sacramentally instituting a "permanent romantic commitment" between homosexual lovers.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:53 am

A Person wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:Uh... where's the vision?


28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city.
...
28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do


Samuel was dead. Samuel appears to Saul. Just one example of a dead person appearing to a living person in a vision.


Again, where is the vision. This was reality was it not?
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Postby A Person » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:12 am

Just to get your argument straight.

Are you are claiming that the ghost of Samuel was real and not a vision, or that the Witch of Endor actually resurrected Samuel?

Which 'reality' are you appealing to?
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Postby Matt » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:32 am

So says John Boswell, Professor of Medieval History at Yale University and the author of this new and lavishly publicized book. It may surprise readers of this journal to learn that he is probably right- depending on what the ceremony means.


probably...depending on...

not exactly a rock-solid theory.
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Postby A Person » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:43 am

Matt wrote:probably...depending on...

Those are the reviewers words Matt. Just because it's written on the Internet doesn't make it true.
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Postby Matt » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:20 pm

A Person wrote:
Matt wrote:probably...depending on...

Those are the reviewers words Matt. Just because it's written on the Internet doesn't make it true.


exactly.
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Postby Liv » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:46 pm

[youtubevideo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSfjReeC_k[/youtubevideo]

Very nice video, all should see.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:02 pm

I beg to differ.... :think:
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Postby A Person » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:18 pm

Yeah, it was just over the top saccharine sweet and obvious. My teeth are aching, I need to gargle some syrup.
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Postby C. Alice » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:48 pm

gee, AP was the problem all those mushy lines the characters spoke? :lol:

I liked the video.
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Postby A Person » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:59 pm

It needed some kittens. Oh and one of the guys should have been black. And maybe if the vicar joined in a Tower Bridge threesome.

:twisted:
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