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God loves Gays, and Finally Sends Jerry Falwell to Hell

Or Allah for that matter?

Postby Questioner » Wed May 16, 2007 2:37 pm

Jesus never preached hate in his entire life. He preached love and tolerance--even for sinners such as prostitutes and those of other religions and ethnicities. He preached care for the poor, sick and injured, even when they weren't like you. (Has anyone read the parable of the Good Samaritan lately?) Jesus loved all people, including homosexual people. He certainly never advocated hatred and discrimination toward anybody.

The ilk of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts and their vile mouthpiece, Rush Limbaugh spew hatred and intolerance. They utterly reject the teachings of Jesus and base their vile beliefs on the ugliest, most anti-Christian parts of the Old Testament they can find. Jesus said he brought a "new law". But these guys don't like Jesus' law very much. They prefer the ugliness of the worst of the Old Testament passages.

They are indeed as close to the anti-Christ as I can imagine because they teach the opposite of what Jesus taught. They deliberately corrupt Christianity by turning it into a politial tool for the modern pharasees, the very rich who pay these guys to get the poor and middle class to vote against their own interests. As a result, the largest transfer of wealth from the poor/middle class to the wealthy that the world has EVER seen has occurred under George Bush. (Learn a little bit about economics and check out the indicators for the past 8 years. The pattern is as obvious as a huge boil on the end of your nose).

These fundamentalists want to force their beliefs on everyone else. Since persuasion has not brought enough followers into their "Elmer Gantry" world, they want to use politicians to tax us so we will be forced to support their brand of Christianity. Jesus said, "Give unto Ceaser that which is Ceasar's and to God that which is God's". But they want "Ceasar" to give your money to their personal churches--and nobody belongs to all their churches. Therefore, if they get their way, all of us will be financially supporting churches to which we do not belong. How unAmerican is that?

Some of these guys are Southern Baptists, some are Pentacostalists, others are of other denominations. They all share one key characteristic: They hate the America founded by our forefathers--Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, Thomas Paine, etc. They do NOT support the U.S. Constitution which specifically forbids the government from getting involved in religion. They do NOT want you and me to be able to follow our own beliefs (unless those beliefs are based on their religion).

One wonders just how poor the middle class will have to become before they finally wake up to the reality that their own religious leaders have sold out to the rich. When will they recognize that a strong separation between church and state is the ONLY way to preserve America. When will they get a brain and stop voting the way these demons tell them to vote--and start paying attention to their Constitution and their pocketbooks.

Can you imagine anybody less Christlike that those guys?
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Postby A Person » Wed May 16, 2007 5:21 pm

Don't hold back - tell us what you really think :twisted:

The Bible is ambiguous about homosexuality, but it's pretty explicit about non-believers and believers in false Gods. If they're given a victory against gays - who will be the next target?
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Postby Questioner » Thu May 17, 2007 12:59 am

A Person wrote:Don't hold back - tell us what you really think :twisted:


OK. I'll try to be less ambiguous next time. :mrgreen:
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Fri May 18, 2007 1:58 am

Oh man. I go off on a vacation and what happens? The world has one less voice of cruel piety to contend with. Out of a cast of thousands of modern-day Pharisees, sad to say. No doubt, he'll be missed. Tragically, his legacy of self-righteous activism will be staining the landscape for generations to come. Such a pity...
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Fri May 18, 2007 5:03 pm

I've held off posting on this post for a few days but felt I needed to respond. First off, I don't think Jerry Fallwell is in Hell. I may not agree with ALL that he did but that doesn't mean he's going to hell.

Maybe to you all protestants are going to hell. I don't know. I sure hope you don't think that way but then again I'm not sure of you are thinking.

Regardless of the reasons, as a Christian and knowing how awful it would be to go to hell, I can't imagine that I'd be remotely happy If I thought somobody would be going to hell. In your post I felt a tone of contentment that he was going hell. If I am mistaken then I'm sorry. But If I'm not....
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Postby Questioner » Fri May 18, 2007 5:42 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:I've held off posting on this post for a few days but felt I needed to respond. First off, I don't think Jerry Fallwell is in Hell. I may not agree with ALL that he did but that doesn't mean he's going to hell.

Maybe to you all protestants are going to hell. I don't know. I sure hope you don't think that way but then again I'm not sure of you are thinking.

Regardless of the reasons, as a Christian and knowing how awful it would be to go to hell, I can't imagine that I'd be remotely happy If I thought somobody would be going to hell. In your post I felt a tone of contentment that he was going hell. If I am mistaken then I'm sorry. But If I'm not....

Of course all Protestants don't go to hell. I hope and believe that most go to heaven. But when a truly evil man like Jerry Falwell is finally taken out of the loop, you bet I am glad. I believe he has put himself in Hell, and he doesn't have the excuse of ignorance. The evil he spewed was done knowingly in contravention of Jesus' teachings. He has done nothing in his life except teach people to reject Jesus and His teachings. He led people into evil for the purpose of gaining money and fame. When a person like Falwell, or Hitler, dies, I assume they are put in hell for their evil. Falwell was so obviously one of the "false prophets" Jesus warned us about who say that they are from God when what they teach proves they are from God's Enemy. I rejoice not that he is in hell, but that he will not be able to promote his evil on earth any more.
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Postby A Person » Fri May 18, 2007 8:09 pm

His empty body was found at his desk in his office. Perhaps that was the rapture and he was the only one thought worthy?

A Heaven that includes Falwell, Luther, Calvin and Myra Hindley but excludes Archimedes, Einstein, Galileo, Gandhi and Douglas Adams, sounds pretty hellish to me.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Fri May 18, 2007 8:22 pm

A Heaven that includes Falwell, Luther, Calvin and Myra Hindley but excludes Archimedes, Einstein, Galileo, Gandhi and Douglas Adams, sounds pretty hellish to me.


You don't get into heaven by being nice and a good person. The requirements are that you submit to Jesus the Christ. Did Ghandi submit and accept Jesus the Christ? Likely not.

I don't think you have ANY idea how hellish the lake of fire is supposed to be. Hell is nothing compared to the lake of fire.
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Postby Questioner » Fri May 18, 2007 8:41 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:You don't get into heaven by being nice and a good person. The requirements are that you submit to Jesus the Christ. Did Ghandi submit and accept Jesus the Christ? Likely not.

I don't think you have ANY idea how hellish the lake of fire is supposed to be. Hell is nothing compared to the lake of fire.
I don't think the two things are different.

Wait a minute! You said a while ago that all you had to do to go to heaven was be "saved" once. After that, you could do anything you pleased. Now you gotta submit?
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Postby Questioner » Fri May 18, 2007 8:47 pm

A Person wrote:A Heaven that includes Falwell, Luther, Calvin and Myra Hindley but excludes Archimedes, Einstein, Galileo, Gandhi and Douglas Adams, sounds pretty hellish to me.
Well Excuuuusssse me! Myra said she was sorry! :twisted:
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Postby A Person » Fri May 18, 2007 9:43 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:You don't get into heaven by being nice and a good person. The requirements are that you submit to Jesus the Christ. Did Ghandi submit and accept Jesus the Christ? Likely not.
That's my point.
BecauseHeLives wrote:I don't think you have ANY idea how hellish the lake of fire is supposed to be. Hell is nothing compared to the lake of fire.
I've read the same words you have, so I have EXACTLY THE SAME IDEA AS YOU. I just think they're silly bogeyman stories designed to scare the gullible into doing what the church wants. I see it worked.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sat May 19, 2007 4:05 am

I don't think the two things are different.


Sure they are. Sheol (the unpleasant part) is where unforgiven sinners wait out until judgement day. After the white throne of judgment they will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Now since the book of life is not opened until judgement day and judgement day does not happen until after Christ's return we know that nobody is thrown into the lake of fire yet. The lake of fire was designed for satan and his angels yet God will throw sinners there as well. The beast and the false prophet are the first to be thrown into the lake of fire.


Wait a minute! You said a while ago that all you had to do to go to heaven was be "saved" once. After that, you could do anything you pleased. Now you gotta submit?


I never said you could do anything you please. You are certainly misquoting me either on purpose or by mistake.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sat May 19, 2007 4:07 am

I've read the same words you have, so I have EXACTLY THE SAME IDEA AS YOU. I just think they're silly bogeyman stories designed to scare the gullible into doing what the church wants. I see it worked.


Satan is MUCH smarter than you or I and your last statment proves it. Everything is a story to some people especially to those who see by sight instead of by faith.
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Postby A Person » Sat May 19, 2007 5:55 am

Presumably God created your eyes for some purpose. Why would God create eyes, intellect and reason if he didn't intend for you to use them. Or was it Satan that gave us those things?
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Postby Questioner » Sat May 19, 2007 12:37 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:
Questioner wrote:I don't think the two things are different.

Sure they are. Sheol (the unpleasant part) is where unforgiven sinners wait out until judgement day. After the white throne of judgment they will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

But since hell was cast into the lake of fire, are they not one and the same now?
BecauseHeLives wrote:I never said you could do anything you please. You are certainly misquoting me either on purpose or by mistake.
But you have implied that. Several times you said that once saved, you are guaranteed heaven, and in other places you have said good works are not necessary to get to heaven.

Sorry, but to me, those two things put together sound like you are saying that once saved, you can do pretty much as you please because you are guaranteed to get into heaven. If that isn't what you meant, please explain the difference.
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Postby dflynn5656 » Sat May 19, 2007 2:23 pm

The bible has plenty of stuff against Homosexuality folks:

1. The Law of God Speaks Against it:

Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 23:17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."
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Postby dflynn5656 » Sat May 19, 2007 2:33 pm

A Person wrote:Don't hold back - tell us what you really think :twisted:

The Bible is ambiguous about homosexuality, but it's pretty explicit about non-believers and believers in false Gods. If they're given a victory against gays - who will be the next target?


Further -

2. Biblical History Speaks Against it:

Genesis 19:4-12, "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:" Genesis 19:23-28, "The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace."

1 Kings 14:24, "And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel."

1 Kings 15:11-12, "And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."

1 Kings 22:41-46, "And Jehoshaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel. Jehoshaphat was thirty and five years old when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Azubah the daughter of Shilhi. And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the LORD: nevertheless the high places were not taken away; for the people offered and burnt incense yet in the high places. And Jehoshaphat made peace with the king of Israel. Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, and his might that he shewed, and how he warred, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah? And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land."

2 Kings 23:7, "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Sat May 19, 2007 2:56 pm

dflynn5656 wrote:The bible has plenty of stuff against Homosexuality folks:

1. The Law of God Speaks Against it:

Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 23:17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

The Bible has a lot of the codfied morality of ancient itenerant middle-eastern shepherds. We don't bother ourselves with most of that idiocy, like paying 50 sheckles for raping an unbetrothed virgin or stoning disobedient children to death... why should we bother with what it says about gays?
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Sat May 19, 2007 2:59 pm

dflynn5656 wrote:2. Biblical History Speaks Against it {homosexuality}:

Yeah, and Jerry Falwell said that gays were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Means nothing, dude.
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Postby dflynn5656 » Sat May 19, 2007 3:32 pm

There's simple too much evidence against it in the bible.

3. The Prophets of the Old Testament Speak Against it:

Isaiah 1:9, "Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah."

Isaiah 3:9, "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves."

Isaiah 13:19, "And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah."

Lamentations 4:6, "For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."

Ezekiel 16:49, "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
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Postby dflynn5656 » Sat May 19, 2007 3:36 pm

Can we just agree that being gay is completely wrong?
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Postby A Person » Sat May 19, 2007 4:10 pm

No
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Postby RebelSnake » Sat May 19, 2007 4:11 pm

dflynn5656 wrote:Can we just agree that being gay is completely wrong?


Is being born a redhead wrong?
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Postby Questioner » Sat May 19, 2007 4:12 pm

dflynn5656 wrote:Can we just agree that being gay is completely wrong?
No. We cannot. The Catholic Church does not agree with your opinion. They have come to realize that being gay is not a choice, it is something part of the population was born with. And medical science is coming closer to understanding the biological source of homosexuality. It could be genetic, but it may also have to do with the hormonal environment in utero. In other words, gay people were made that way.

Please find something in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John where Jesus said to hate and persecute homosexual people. Your old testament quotes are of no importance. Jesus brought a New Law.

Since God made some people heterosexual and others homosexual, it is clearly part of God's plan to have both types of people here. Who am I to question God's plan? Who are you? When people express hatred against gays and seek to do them harm, they are acting directly against God's plan. If you do not agree with this position, then I can only conclude you are not a Catholic.
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Postby dflynn5656 » Sat May 19, 2007 4:41 pm

These post from me are beneath my own standards.

I am therefore deleting them.

Questioners quoting i=of the CCC is a step in the right direction - and I should be supporting her for it.

David
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