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I got a heaping helping of "Christian Love" on Sat

Or Allah for that matter?

Postby Sanjuro » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:55 pm

Well, it finally happened. Some "loving" christian decided they didn't like my window sticker and vandalized my car over the weekend.

I won't go into details, but they made it very clear the sticker (which honestly isn't offensive, and makes a subtle point about Xtianity) was the focus of their scorn.

These cowards decided to do this over Friday night as I slept rather than come knock on the door to ask me about it or plead their point to the contrary with a well thought out note. No, these neanderthals would rather use bully tactics, making it very clear they didn't want "my kind" in that particular neighborhood, they created a mess which I awoke to find the next morning. And I spent about 2 hours cleaning off, that which was able to be cleaned, in front of my friend's garage.

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What happened next, I didn't see coming. As I was angrily cleaning and repairing, 2 gentlemen were making their way around the neighborhood ...bibles in hand. As I saw them make their way around, I secretly hoped they would pass us by. Because I KNEW what I would say. I normally have a "live and let live" attitude, but not on THIS particular day.

Long story short. When they got up to the curb my friend hurriedly walked out to them trying to buffer my angst. They ask "doing a little car cleaning?"

"No, we had a little bit of vandalism last night" My friend replied.

"Really? I hate to hear that" Said the bible thumper.

To which I responded "well, I've come to expect it, really."

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...and so it began. He asked what church we attend, my friend answered with the name of his, I kept silent. I was hoping they would hand us a tract and keep walking. That wasn't to be the case because he decided to engage me in the conversation.

He turned to me and asked if I attend a church.. and I responded (naturally) "Absolutely not."

And then we got into it. Anyone who has been in this position knows how the rest goes so I will spare you.

In short time I was able to poke holes in their reason for being there which really seemed to catch them off guard, and after about 5 minutes asked them to leave because they were getting angry and I was not in the mood to escalate beyond a simple discussion at my friend's house (since he is a Xtian). I point and counter-pointed in a surprisingly calm and positive way despite what had happened. And the last thing I said was "well, the burden of proof is really on you though, isn't it?" To which, they didn't seem to respond too well. In fact, when they were walking off, the one who remained quiet turned and started barking at me like a little dog, waving his finger and condemning me. All the while while droning on about how god talks to him and he hears voices and other things that would get them condemned to an insane asylum if it wasn't under the guise of religion. Thanks for proving my point little chiwawa, now move along. For a second I was about to ask him if he ever posts to a certain "boring" blog :lol: .

I want to thank those who did this. For you remind me exactly of the ignorance and cowardice we are to face and oppose in certain religious circles if there is ever to be a new renaissance of art and reason in this country.
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Postby Nfidel » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:37 pm

Sorry to hear about the vandalism, Sanjuro. I suppose a sanity suvival mechanism drops us into a "live and let live" mode for much of the time. When something like this happens it's a reminder that the bible thumpers have nothing less than world domination in mind, as outlined in their instruction manual. I suppose breaking your window was no sin since you are an infidel. Again, sorry this happened.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:49 pm

I got a heaping helping of "Christian Love" on Sat


No. You didn't.
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:49 pm

Sanjuro wrote:Well, it finally happened. Some "loving" christian decided they didn't like my window sticker and vandalized my car over the weekend.

I'm truly sorry to hear that, friend. What sort of monetary costs are involved? Did you report this to police and insurance folks?

Just wondering...
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:52 pm

I'm curious. What WAS the window sticker you had on your window?
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Postby Sanjuro » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:03 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:I'm curious. What WAS the window sticker you had on your window?


"I heart BHL" Just kidding. Actually it was A darwin/evolve fish.
Funny, Ive never thought to vandal any of the hundreds of xtian fish on other people's cars.
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Postby Sanjuro » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:07 pm

SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:
I'm truly sorry to hear that, friend. What sort of monetary costs are involved? Did you report this to police and insurance folks?

Just wondering...


You know, I don't really trust the police to be honest. Most of them are cut from the same cloth and I didn't want to deal with that on top of everything else.

Actually I wanted to remove it as quickly as possible to minmimize any more damage. Some of the scratched parts I can buff out with my random orbital and some I can't. My insurance is high enough thanks very much. 8)
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Postby Sanjuro » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:08 pm

The glass was chipped, but I planned on replacing the windshield anyway in the spring. So no sweat. But it did take forever to get this cleaned.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:20 pm

"I heart BHL" Just kidding.


LOL! People should was your car for that sticker. :)

Actually it was A darwin/evolve fish.


Let me make something perfectly clear. What somebody did to your car was completly uncalled for and completely un-Christian like. I hope you don't go blaming all Christians for the roque actions of a few (if they were actually Christians).

Some things you have to examine though are the following. A Darwin/evolve fish IS poking fun at Christianity. It would be paramount to me putting a picture of my mother on my bumber sticker and then seeing you put a picture of my mother on your bumber sticker with a big "X" on it. Its just offensive to Christians. And its not just that its offensive but it is a defiled representation of the Christian symbol. If you are an atheist or an evolutionist one has to wonder couldn't there be a better way (and less offensive way and less defiling) to display that instead of using a Christian symbol and twisting it around to poke fun of it. Because that's exactly what is being done. One might wonder where is the tolerence that so many atheists claim Christians don't have. I wonder what would happen to my car if I took a rainbow bumber sticker and twisted it around to have some inflammatory anti-gay meaning. Would I feel my car would be safe 100 % of the time? Probably not.

Again... what somebody did to your car was uncalled for. My condolenses.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:22 pm

I might add Sanjuro. If there is anything I can do to help you get your car back to the way it was I am willing to help you out any way that I can.
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Postby Sanjuro » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:24 pm

How do you know that "evolve" doesn't simply mean religion should evolve to fit the world it exists in to create better harmony with science and new discoveries? You assume a lot I think.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:27 pm

Sanjuro wrote:How do you know that "evolve" doesn't simply mean religion should evolve to fit the world it exists in to create better harmony with science and new discoveries? You assume a lot I think.


Is that what it means to you? I think the vast majority of people (especially the Christian group) do not see that emblem as meaning that and I doubt you'll see that on any cars in a church parking lot.

C'mon Sanjuro... you know what meaning you meant it to portray.
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Postby Sanjuro » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:36 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:
Is that what it means to you? I think the vast majority of people (especially the Christian group) do not see that emblem as meaning that and I doubt you'll see that on any cars in a church parking lot.

C'mon Sanjuro... you know what meaning you meant it to portray.


Seriously, for a very long time it indeed did simply mean to simply evolve with the times. I think the very word is a threat to people now though. However, it's no more abrasive than having to read something about god, abortions, or soul saving on other cars. I see countless numbers of those a day. So its ok for them to express who they are, but a simple symbol is not? I don't go bat-shit crazy when I see that.
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Postby A Person » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:45 pm

Funny ain't it that Christians demand the right to display a symbol of torture anywhere and everywhere they want, smother their cars with fish and "Jesus Love Me" stickers - yet see a statement of someone else's beliefs as provocative. If it were the other way round they'd be screaming 'persecution'

I sympathise with you. And that's why I don't have a Darwin fish or FSM on my car. I've had to deal with Christian Love too, it gets expensive. But my boat does have a Pirate Fish on it. You have to be Pastafarian to recognise it.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:54 pm

Hey... I'm all for the right to express yourself even if it might offend others. But, the evolve fish is more than just offensive. Its taking a CHRISTIAN symbol and defiling and ridiculing it. That is what likely inflames some people. Saying that you are displaying the symbol only to show your worldviews is somewhat dishonest IMO.
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Postby A Person » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:59 pm

More than offensive? Since when has a fish been an sacred graven image of Christianity? It's not as if it's a cartoon of Jesus.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:00 pm

A Person wrote:More than offensive? Since when has a fish been an sacred graven image of Christianity? It's not as if it's a cartoon of Jesus.


Oh for about 1900+ years.
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Postby A Person » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:03 pm

Tee hee. I just caught one :)
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:07 pm

A Person wrote:Tee hee. I just caught one :)


;)
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Postby A Person » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:13 pm

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them
That includes fish.

The pre-Christian history of the fish symbol:
The fish symbol has been used for millennia worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the Pagan Great Mother Goddess. It is the outline of her vulva. The fish symbol was often drawn by overlapping two very thin crescent moons. One represented the crescent shortly before the new moon; the other shortly after, when the moon is just visible. The Moon is the heavenly body that has long been associated with the Goddess, just as the sun is a symbol of the God.

The link between the Goddess and fish was found in various areas of the ancient world:

In China, Great Mother Kwan-yin often portrayed in the shape of a fish
In India, the Goddess Kali was called the "fish-eyed one"
In Egypt, Isis was called the Great Fish of the Abyss
In Greece the Greek word "delphos" meant both fish and womb. The word is derived from the location of the ancient Oracle at Delphi who worshipped the original fish goddess, Themis. The later fish Goddess, Aphrodite Salacia, was worshipped by her followers on her sacred day, Friday. They ate fish and engaging in orgies. From her name comes the English word "salacious" which means lustful or obscene. Also from her name comes the name of our fourth month, April. In later centuries, the Christian church adsorbed this tradition by requiring the faithful to eat fish on Friday - a tradition that was only recently abandoned.
In ancient Rome Friday is called "dies veneris" or Day of Venus, the Pagan Goddess of Love.
Throughout the Mediterranean, mystery religions used fish, wine and bread for their sacramental meal.
In Scandinavia, the Great Goddess was named Freya; fish were eaten in her honor. The 6th day of the week was named "Friday" after her.
In the Middle East, the Great Goddess of Ephesus was portrayed as a woman with a fish amulet over her genitals.

The fish symbol "was so revered throughout the Roman empire that Christian authorities insisted on taking it over, with extensive revision of myths to deny its earlier female-genital meanings...Sometimes the Christ child was portrayed inside the vesica, which was superimposed on Mary's belly and obviously represented her womb, just as in the ancient symbolism of the Goddess." 4 Another author writes: "The fish headdress of the priests of Ea [a Sumero-Semitic God] later became the miter of the Christian bishops." J.C. Cooper, "Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Traditional Symbols", (1979), Page 68-69.
i.e. stolen, like most Christian themes, symbols, celebrations etc, from earlier pagan religions.
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:56 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:Hey... I'm all for the right to express yourself even if it might offend others. But, the evolve fish is more than just offensive. Its taking a CHRISTIAN symbol and defiling and ridiculing it. That is what likely inflames some people. Saying that you are displaying the symbol only to show your worldviews is somewhat dishonest IMO.

Saying that your symbol is "defiled" and that such an act is more than offensive indicates that you see your symbols as being somehow "better" than others' or perhaps even "holy."

Yes, I have an "evolve" fish on my car, but it's there only to tweak the noses of certain folks who are prone to getting their noses tweaked over such things.

I'm glad that you've said that you wouldn't condone what happened to friend Sanjuro's car. But the fact that you consider his symbol to be a provocation to what these thugs did says some pretty unsavory things, I think. Unsavory, but hardly surprising or new.
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Postby RebelSnake » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:56 pm

Sanjuro, I'm sorry to hear about all this man. It's really sad when a simple thought process can cause so much intolerance and hate. These are the same kind of people responsible for segregation and slavery before that. And christians think they're persecuted?
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Postby A Person » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:42 pm

Did you point out that it represents the vulva of the Earth Goddess? :twisted:
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Postby RebelSnake » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:51 pm

Seriously though, I didn't realize it was such a sore subject.


I guess the caricature in the Danish newspaper idea is out then. :mrgreen:
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Postby A Person » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:27 pm

Since my car is anonymous - let's be really offensive :twisted:
Image
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