SFI Bible Study - part 10

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

As always, I hope this can be a serious study of the Christian Bible, and I only ask that those who participate try to stay away from personal-level attacks. All pertinent comments are welcome, regardless of whether you are a believer or not.

Continuing with Deuternonmy. Lots of fun stuff left to look at there.

Deu 13:1-5 - If prophets or those who divine by dreams appear among you and promise you omens and portents, and the omens and portents declared by them take place, and they say, "Let us follow other gods" (whom you have not known) "and let us serve them," you must not heed the words of those prophets or those who divine by dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you indeed love the LORD your God with all your heart and soul. The LORD your God you shall follow, him alone shall you fear, his commandments you shall keep, his voice you shall obey, him you shall serve, and to him shall you hold fast. But those prophets or those who divine by dreams shall be put to death for having spoken treason against the LORD your God - who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery - to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge evil from your midst.

Several things here. It looks like Moses was aware that other religious leaders were likely to show up, capable of pulling the same tricks he could. So he gives them this line to make sure his power (or rather the power of following priests) will be safe from outside challenges. The paper-thin "explanation" of God testing his people this way is logically ludicrous. It implies that the hypothetical prophets and seers are working under God's control, and God is ordering the deaths of his testers.

This also puts me in mind of what happened to Jesus in the Gospels. Here we see a miracle-worker who (according to John, at least) claimed to be God in the flesh. I would think it would be quite natural for the Jews to see him as the very sort of person referred to in this passage. From what I can see, this law orders a person like Jesus to be 1 - ignored and 2 - killed.

Comments?

[BecauseHeLives]

Several things here. It looks like Moses was aware that other religious leaders were likely to show up, capable of pulling the same tricks he could.

Moses didn't pull any "tricks". He was simply the instrument that God used to perform his miricles. God knew that false prophets would come so he gave His people forewarning. All miricles are not of God.

So he gives them this line to make sure his power (or rather the power of following priests) will be safe from outside challenges.

Moses was a humble and righteous man. What would he have to fear from outside forces? Moses realized he had no power but what God gave to him.

The paper-thin "explanation" of God testing his people this way is logically ludicrous. It implies that the hypothetical prophets and seers are working under God's control, and God is ordering the deaths of his testers.

Your implications are incorrect. God allows the false prophets to come and He knows what they will do. That doesn't mean they are controlled by God.

This also puts me in mind of what happened to Jesus in the Gospels. Here we see a miracle-worker who (according to John, at least) claimed to be God in the flesh. I would think it would be quite natural for the Jews to see him as the very sort of person referred to in this passage. From what I can see, this law orders a person like Jesus to be 1 - ignored and 2 - killed.

You foget that one difference is that Jesus's coming (and His death) was foretold by a TRUE prophet. That's an important detail you left out.

[A Person]

How can one tell the difference between a 'true' prophet and a 'false' prophet if both provide accurate prophecies and can perform real miracles?

[A Person]

Moses 'humble and righteous'?
Ignoring for a moment that as the author he wrote that about himself (not a particularly modest act)

31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Spare us from this humility!

[BecauseHeLives]

How can one tell the difference between a 'true' prophet and a 'false' prophet if both provide accurate prophecies and can perform real miracles?

A true prophet has all prophesies fulfilled AND does not contradict God's Word. An explanation too big to post can be founf here:

http://www.harvestnet.org/teachings/tru ... ophets.htm

[RebelSnake]

It looks like Moses was aware that other religious leaders were likely to show up, capable of pulling the same tricks he could.

Sounds quite similar to the godmen of India with all of their cheap parlor tricks.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

You foget that one difference is that Jesus's coming (and His death) was foretold by a TRUE prophet. That's an important detail you left out.

"a TRUE prophet"? Which one might that be? And unfortunately, in my creation of this series of Bible studies, I forgot to include a section on the Torah's lessons on what constitutes a "true" prophet. We could discuss later if needed...

[A Person]

False Prophets
1) Many of them; trusts the majority opinion
2) Generally liked and trusted by the people
3) Speaks presumptuously of God; and the thing not come to pass
4) Speaks of peace and prosperity
5) Uses power of suggestion or illusion; calls it signs & wonders
6) Demonstrates the wisdom of men and enjoys men's praise
7) Socially acceptable and conforms to people's expectations
8) Promotes self-interest
9) Gives counsel to God
10) Demands belief in his position:
11) Shares that God will not judge you, do not fear God
12) Shares opinion to explain Scripture

Sounds rather like a certain JC

[jb]

[/quote]
Sounds rather like a certain JC[/quote]

True. But do you ever wonder why His name is still around 2,000 years later?

[A Person]

Gods names tend to hang around for a long time. Jesus is a new kid on the block compared with some.

I hope you enjoyed the Yule tide and are looking forward to Eostre to celebrate the fertility of the season.

I'll bet you have a busy week too:

Moonday: Lunatics mission group
Tyresday:Army reserves training
Wodensday: Leadership & management study
Thorsday: Blacksmith classes
Frigasday: Beauticians evening
Saturnday: Love that Beer and wine
Sunday: For worship - where's the sunbed?

If you just want to consider Abrahamic prophets I hear Moses and Mohammad have a few adherents too