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What should be "intolerable"?

by SouthernFriedInfidel | Published on November 20th, 2010, 4:41 pm | Religion
Whenever some group comes under fire for being intolerant of some other group, it's often heard from those who are intolerant "You're being intolerant of US, so you are all hypocrites!"

This is a favorite tactic from Christians who want to make life as miserable as possible for gays, Muslims, atheists, scientists, and anyone else that tends to crimp their "lifestyle."

But it occurs to me that we all agree that some things can't be tolerated. Like stealing, or kidnapping for instance. Why is that?

I know religious people would automatically reply "because God ordered us not to tolerate those things." Well, that sort of claim would have to be backed up, and if you look at the history of how "godly" people have acted through history, regardless of religion, you'll see that it's not so.

But even those unruly people refused to tolerate stealing and kidnapping within their own societies. So a theory of how behaviors become forbidden should take into account that such rules are created for the purpose of social stability.

Now we come to consider American society. What is different about American society is that it is not a single social group that has evolved in the usual tribal isolation over its life. Instead, it is a collection of people from many societies that have come together and lived here for a mere 10 or 15 generations at most. Such a society must make its rules differently from the old "trial-and-error, then make it look like god told us to live this way" method. And we have done that with a secular government that finds the common ground (ideally) for its laws.

But society never stays unchanging, which ticks off the folks who are used to getting their social rules out of ancient books, and pretending that those rules should never change. Which brings us to today's intolerances from the religious conservatives.

In America, we had a long period of tolerating slavery, and a lot of religious folks didn't like it one bit when the rest of the civilized world decided to change that tolerance. We ended up fighting a war over that question. A lot of religious folks didn't like it when women wanted the right to vote. There was a long hard fight over that, but the conservatives lost that fight as well. Then came racial integration, in schools and the military, and guess who were in the front of THAT resistance. Religious conservatives. And don't forget the whole business of "interracial" marriage. There are STILL religious folks who will pull out their Bibles to find reasons to fight against that.

The point is that in all these social changes that took place, social stability was NOT disrupted by those steps in our evolution. Yet there were religious folks who fought as hard as they could to remain intolerant... and the world eventually ended up passing them by.

I expect that eventually -- soon, I hope -- this business of being intolerant toward gay people will run the same course. We already see in many places around the world that gays in the military, getting married and raising families of their own pose NO THREAT to social stability. There is no real-world reason to remain intolerant of gays or keep them from the same rights that straight folks have. The only reason left is found in some books that tell their readers to tolerate slavery, keep women ignorant and servile, and keep societies as narrow-minded and tribal as possible.

Tolerating useless intolerance is not helpful to any modern, growing society. One day, the world needs to learn that very important lesson.
 
 
I'm not sure tolerance will come to America until there's a wave of change in how, fundamentally, Americans think. I think religion is as much tied to our government, our way of life as anything. Until major, huge, sweeping changes occur it will continue.

Look at Roe vs Wade... they're still trying to overturn it.... and despite the self-censuring of private opinion there's no doubt there is a silent group of Americans who would overturn de-segregation in a minute. Sure there are still Nazi's in Germany? Of course.... but I'd say 90% of my friends (and I grew up on a wealthier side of Greensboro) growing up had some racist tendencies. It's abundant here.

When I came out to my friends here in NC, they disappeared from my life. These were people who some were major parts of my life. Yet I can walk down many parts of metro-Europe holding hands with Shannon and no one thinks a thing about it, let alone digresses into the fact we're also mixed race which really upsets people.

Intolerance is tied to religion which IMHO opinion mirrors what's going on in conservative politics. It's one step removed from Nazism, absolute control of the lives of people. It's the abusive father in the room who beats their child unless he has complete submission and control over his children, conformity to his deranged belief system. If we cannot change such individuals to believe differently, we must render their ability to influence government and the public through their various channels- inert.
This is our chance to change things, this is our destiny.
November 21st, 2010, 8:24 am
User avatar
Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
I think there is a lot of changes going on for most folks in this country, Liv. The depiction of attitudes by the media is very likely a distortion of the populace's attitude. For instance, in the recent study of attitudes among military personnel on DADT, 70% agreed that repeal of the policy would not harm unit effectiveness. Yet all we hear is John MCain using increasingly ridiculous stalling tactics to hold things up.

Should we pay most attention to the 70% who said it's OK to get rid of DADT? Or to the buffoon who can't understand that the times, they are a-changin'?
November 21st, 2010, 3:21 pm
User avatar
SouthernFriedInfidel
 
Location: 5th circle of hell -- actually not very crowded at the moment.
The problem is not the change in thought, but the change in action. You can disagree with king, but it takes more than disagreement to dethrone him.

Perhaps that's the problem, people have forgotten how to fight for what they believe in. They've forgotten sometimes you have to sacrifice some now for something better later.

Ask any American if they'd give up their house and car for a flat and public transportation if it guaranteed their children/grand children a better world. Ask them if the'd risk losing their job to stand up for someone who lost theirs to being gay or ______________.

Americans can "tolerate" whatever makes them fatter, richer, and wealthier... their willingness to make change only comes when they have something to risk.
November 24th, 2010, 5:44 am
User avatar
Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC

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