All gods are subjective

All gods are subjective

by SouthernFriedInfidel Published on October 27th, 2009, 6:24 am Rift: RELIGION

The other day, I got an email relating to an essay I posted several years ago about God's promises in the Bible. My latest correspondent told me that regardless of what I might think about the Bible, God is real. Why? Because he experienced God's presence while praying, and while at church.

I pointed out to him that EVERY religion has followers who claim the same thing. I've talked with Muslims and Hindus who assured me that their gods were real because they experienced their gods while praying, or while worshiping. I know that all other religious traditions I've read about have those who claim mystical experiences, personal encounters with the divine.

It seems obvious to me that all these reports indicate a subjective experience. Obviously, YHWH, The Great Spirit, Allah and Shiva can't all be giving the SAME feelings and head trips to their respective adherents.

My email concluded with a classic thought. He urged me to use my heart more and my mind less. I said that people using their minds less is a cause of too many of the world's problems.

[A Person]

I have had experiences very similar to those described by the religious as their God moment - even ignoring Saint Teresa's moment of ecstasy (the poor woman only ever had one that we know of)

I saw in his hand a long spear of gold, and at the iron's point there seemed to be a little fire. He appeared to me to be thrusting it at times into my heart, and to pierce my very entrails; when he drew it out, he seemed to draw them out also, and to leave me all on fire with a great love of God. The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying.

Certainly listening to a full choir in a medieval cathedral is a wonderfully emotional experience, but I have experienced it in midwinter in a forest glade, where the snow silences all noise, where if you sit still animals will come out. I've also had it while scuba diving, spelunking, and like Douglas Adams who's inspiration for The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy came while lying drunk in a field in Greece staring up at the night sky.

But because we don't ascribe these feelings to angels, faeries, or gods, the religious pity us and accuse us of having no sense of wonder. More fool them.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

That "mountaintop" sense of wonder -- I've had it a few times over the past decade. Mostly in Hawaii... that's why I would love to retire there more than any other place. Standing on the rim of Diamond Head and looking out over the island of Oahu... standing on the sandy ocean bottom 100 ft down... watching the stars over Haleakala at 10,000 ft above sea level. I take a minute or two to just marvel at the wonder of the place. Even though at 100 ft below the surface, you're only allowed like 10 minutes of bottom time before you have to head up, it's worth it.

[Liv]

Dad used a similar personal experience to try and bring me back to the lord during his "intervention" a few months back....

Asked me... "How can you say that's not God"...

... for him the event served as definitive proof and evidence, irrefutable....

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

Subjectively -- from HIS point of view only -- that's correct. He was willing to accept the evidence of his experience as "proof." It was unreasonable of him to expect his experience to be acceptable for your use.