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The Pope, Condoms and Evolution

by A Person | Published on August 5th, 2009, 3:04 pm | Religion
Why understanding evolution is important.

The Pope, Condoms and the Evolution of HIV
From The Lancet Infectious Diseases, Volume 9, Issue 8, Pages 461 - 462, August 2009.

Samuel Ponce de Leon, Maria Eugenia Jimenez-Corona, Ana Maria Velasco, Antonio Lazcano

The unjustifiable nature of the Vatican’s opposition to condoms in the face of the spread of HIV has been underlined by many.[1] Moreover, the claims made by Pope Benedict XVI during his recent trip to Africa that the AIDS epidemic is a tragedy that “cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms; on the contrary, they increase it”[2] reveal, among other issues, a very poor understanding of the evolutionary future of HIV and the emergence of new strains.

The epidemic has led to the development of highly eff ective therapies based on new antiretroviral drugs, which unfortunately are not available to most African patients. These new treatments have been developed with little consideration of their evolutionary consequences, but HIV will not cease to evolve, as shown by the rapid resistance developed against the different combinations of drugs that are being used.[3] Clinical data show that in some parts of Europe and the Americas one of every ten newly infected people has an HIV strain that is already resistant to one or more groups of antiretrovirals.[4,5] Unfortunately, the list now includes primary infections in which multidrug-resistant HIV subtypes have been reported.[6,7] The unavoidable conclusion is that sooner or later we will observe resistance to even the most efficient combinations of antiretrovirals, with all the clinical and epidemiological adverse consequences.[8] Even if we are able to overcome the problems faced in the development of vaccines, they will not be 100% effective.

By contrast, condoms, by their very nature, stop infections but do not act as a selective agent. Pope Benedict XVI, together with physicians, policy makers, religious organisations, and, eventually, the population at large, should become fully aware of the obvious: by acting as a purely physical barrier, condoms not only have a key role in limiting the HIV pandemic, but also help to keep down the number of new strains.

The Vatican must understand that, in purely Darwinian terms, HIV will never evolve resistance to condoms.

1 The Lancet. Condoms and the Vatican. Lancet 2008; 367: 1550.
2 The Lancet. Redemption for the Pope? Lancet 2009; 373: 1054.
3 Kantor R, Katzenstein DA, Efron B, et al. Impact of HIV-1 subtype and antiretroviral therapy on protease and reverse transcriptase genotype: results of a global collaboration. PLoS Med 2005; 24: e112.
4 Booth CL, Geretti AM. Prevalence and determinants of transmitted antiretroviral drug resistance in HIV-1 infection. J Antimicrobial Chemother 2007; 59: 1047–56.
5 Vercauteren J, Derdelinckx I, Sasse A, et al. Prevalence and epidemiology of HIV type 1 drug resistance among newly diagnosed therapy-naive patients in Belgium from 2003 to 2006. AIDS Res Hum Retroviruses 2008; 24: 355–62.
6 Blick G, Kagan RM, Coakley E, et al. The probable source of both the primary multidrug-resistant (MDR) HIV-1 strain found in a patient with rapid progression to AIDS and a second recombinant MDR strain found in a chronically HIV-1-infected patient. J Infect Dis 2007; 195: 1250–59.
7 Delaugerre C, Marcelin AG, Soulié C, et al. Transmission of multidrugresistant HIV-1: 5 years of immunological and virological survey. AIDS 2007; 21: 1365–67.
8 Hogg RS, Bangsberg DR, Lima VD, et al. Emergence of drug resistance is associated with an increased risk of death among patients fi rst starting HAART. Plos Med 2006; 3: 1570–78.
 
 
I really don't get it. Really. More importantly... Does the Vatican have any actuall effect on the elimination of Condoms? Why aren't we just air-dropping the suckers?
This is our chance to change things, this is our destiny.
August 5th, 2009, 5:26 pm
User avatar
Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
Yes, the Vatican has an enormous effect on the distribution, availability and use of condoms.
August 5th, 2009, 8:45 pm
User avatar
A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
Give me a few thousand cases of Condoms, a nice military cargo plane and one of those t-shirt air cannons, and I'll take care of it.
August 5th, 2009, 9:51 pm
User avatar
Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
They have been told condoms SPREAD AIDS and since they trust priests and believe their eternal soul is in danger they won't use them.

Some people don't realize priests routinely lie for Jesus
August 5th, 2009, 10:27 pm
User avatar
A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
First off, the primary cause of AIDS in Africa is intergenerational sex.

Secondly, condoms will never be the answer to AIDS because there are human factors involved. Abstinence is the only real solution.
August 5th, 2009, 10:38 pm
simone
 
Liv wrote:I really don't get it. Really. More importantly... Does the Vatican have any actuall effect on the elimination of Condoms?

Are you kidding? Questioner, as a Catholic who thinks for herself in practical matters and ignores the insanity that comes out of Rome, is a depressingly rare exception in the Catholic world. What the Pope and his bishops say matters to nearly a billion people. Yes, the Catholic pronouncements regarding condoms has a huge effect around the world. Which is why the man needs to be bitch-slapped when he says such insane stuff.
August 6th, 2009, 3:42 am
User avatar
SouthernFriedInfidel
 
Location: 5th circle of hell -- actually not very crowded at the moment.
A Person wrote:They have been told condoms SPREAD AIDS and since they trust priests and believe their eternal soul is in danger they won't use them.

Some people don't realize priests routinely lie for Jesus


Most people don't realize that you don't need a priest. All saved persons are priests in their own right as they have a direct line of communication with God.

ALL people are liars.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second,it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
August 6th, 2009, 7:35 am
User avatar
BecauseHeLives
 
simone wrote:First off, the primary cause of AIDS in Africa is intergenerational sex.

Secondly, condoms will never be the answer to AIDS because there are human factors involved. Abstinence is the only real solution.


Bitch slap coming up.

(I wonder how abstinence might be affected by 'human factors? let's ask Bristol Palin)

BecauseHeLives wrote:ALL people are liars.


Sorry, you're 2700 years too late, Epimenidesbeat you to it.
August 6th, 2009, 9:12 am
User avatar
A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
simone wrote:First off, the primary cause of AIDS in Africa is intergenerational sex.

Secondly, condoms will never be the answer to AIDS because there are human factors involved. Abstinence is the only real solution.

This kind of answer is not only impossible to implement, I very much fear it is used as a way to justify ignoring the plight of people in Africa who have been devastated by this disease.

Abstinence is not realistic for populations:
First because God gave us an extremely strong sex drive as a way to ensure the survival of humankind. God made sure that abstinence would not happen because then the species would be at high risk of extinction.

Second, because some horrible people started the rumor that has now become widespread in Africa that sex with a virgin would cure AIDS. So (inadvertently I hope) you are blaming raped children for getting AIDS. They certainly did not consent to being raped by an infected person whose only concern was curing his disease, regardless of the consequences to his victim. That is why infection is so strongly associated with intergenerational sex.
August 6th, 2009, 9:38 am
Questioner
 
Location: Colorado
BecauseHeLives wrote:Most people don't realize that you don't need a priest. All saved persons are priests in their own right as they have a direct line of communication with God.

ALL people are liars.

While you don't "need" a priest to communicate with God, you don't need a minister either. Catholics know this and pray all the time whether a priest is present or not. Almost every religion has religious leaders. Yours included. Most members of the congregation ask for the advice of their religious minister to help guide their thinking about matters of faith, morals, and spirituality. Your religion is no different.
What was your point?
August 6th, 2009, 9:46 am
Questioner
 
Location: Colorado
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:
Liv wrote:I really don't get it. Really. More importantly... Does the Vatican have any actuall effect on the elimination of Condoms?

Are you kidding? Questioner, as a Catholic who thinks for herself in practical matters and ignores the insanity that comes out of Rome, is a depressingly rare exception in the Catholic world. What the Pope and his bishops say matters to nearly a billion people. Yes, the Catholic pronouncements regarding condoms has a huge effect around the world. Which is why the man needs to be bitch-slapped when he says such insane stuff.

I am not a rare exception at all. There are millions of us Catholics who recognize that the current pope is not a good leader for our church. We think he was elected primarily because he is very old and not expected to live long--and he gave good service to the former Pope. We think this was a sort of political choice designed to be a temporary appointment. This selection gave the various Cardinals time to think about and discuss the future direction of the Church and make a decision about who should lead the church once this pope dies.

This has been done in the past when a clear leader was not available and the cardinals didn't want to take a chance on a long term Pope who might not be to their liking. Personally, I hope for another Pope John XXIII. Unfortunately, Pope John Paul stacked the college of cardinals with so many reactionary people that my hope is very small.
August 6th, 2009, 9:53 am
Questioner
 
Location: Colorado
Questioner wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:Most people don't realize that you don't need a priest. All saved persons are priests in their own right as they have a direct line of communication with God.

ALL people are liars.

While you don't "need" a priest to communicate with God, you don't need a minister either. Catholics know this and pray all the time whether a priest is present or not. Almost every religion has religious leaders. Yours included. Most members of the congregation ask for the advice of their religious minister to help guide their thinking about matters of faith, morals, and spirituality. Your religion is no different.
What was your point?


You don't NEED a priest for confressions or to ask forgiveness of sins. Christians have the power to go straight to God via Jesus with these things. THAT is the point.
August 6th, 2009, 10:00 am
User avatar
BecauseHeLives
 
While you may not be rare in the US (but my experience is that you in a minority), worldwide it is a different story. Catholicism in the US is tempered by it being a minority religion. In Catholic countries the Pope's word is all too often law.

Speaking as someone who was required by Customs officials to account for the condoms he took with him to Ireland - "How long are you staying in Ireland Sir. Is your wife with you? You're not married? Then you won't be needing these, will you?"
August 6th, 2009, 10:01 am
User avatar
A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
Questioner wrote:
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:Are you kidding? Questioner, as a Catholic who thinks for herself in practical matters and ignores the insanity that comes out of Rome, is a depressingly rare exception in the Catholic world. What the Pope and his bishops say matters to nearly a billion people. Yes, the Catholic pronouncements regarding condoms has a huge effect around the world. Which is why the man needs to be bitch-slapped when he says such insane stuff.

I am not a rare exception at all. There are millions of us Catholics who recognize that the current pope is not a good leader for our church.

Looking at the total population around the world of Catholic believers... you really think that independent thought is widespread? Just wondering.
We think he was elected primarily because he is very old and not expected to live long--and he gave good service to the former Pope. We think this was a sort of political choice designed to be a temporary appointment. This selection gave the various Cardinals time to think about and discuss the future direction of the Church and make a decision about who should lead the church once this pope dies.

And what do you think are the chances that the Cardinals will elect a more progressive sort of Pope when the next occasion arises? My impression is that the streak of conservative, half-barmy old guys will be very likely to continue.
This has been done in the past when a clear leader was not available and the cardinals didn't want to take a chance on a long term Pope who might not be to their liking. Personally, I hope for another Pope John XXIII. Unfortunately, Pope John Paul stacked the college of cardinals with so many reactionary people that my hope is very small.

Ah -- you answered my question. I have to say, I'm not optimistic myself.
August 6th, 2009, 10:04 am
User avatar
SouthernFriedInfidel
 
Location: 5th circle of hell -- actually not very crowded at the moment.
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:Looking at the total population around the world of Catholic believers... you really think that independent thought is widespread? Just wondering.

It seems to me that independent thought is not particularly widespread among ANY people of the world, including the U.S. People in general are much more comfortable when they think they are part of the mainstream. To be part of the mainstream, you must submit to thinking what just about everybody else in your social circle thinks.

Personally, I am concerned that the extreme split and hatred between conservatives and liberals is part of people's unwillingness to think for themselves and strong drive to be part of the "tribe". The value for people of having pretty much everybody think alike is that makes it very much easier to get along with almost everybody. Then you can say what you think (or more correctly, been told to think by your leaders), even to people you don't know very well because almost everybody will agree with you.

What upsets them (and by "them", I am including both liberals and conservatives) about having more than one "thought" in your community is that it is not possible to assume that the person you are speaking with will agree completely with your thinking. Then, of course, one must try to convince the other he/she is wrong and should change to your side's way of thinking. The other side will do the same to you. Such a situation is fraught with disagreeable social possibilities. Now, if our generation were willing to confine discussions to the business at hand, the weather, and generalities about one's own family's (such as was considered the required social contract in my parents' time, these social unpleasantries would not have to be suffered. But now, especially conservatives have spent so much time listening to the likes of Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh, that they think it OK to bring up religion and politics with unfamiliar people because nobody--at least no good American--has the right to a different view. And much of this is because polarization ends up discounting the good arguments of the other side. Sadly, this makes discourse between people of different political and religious persuasions very difficult.
August 8th, 2009, 6:21 pm
Questioner
 
Location: Colorado
BecauseHeLives wrote:
Questioner wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:Most people don't realize that you don't need a priest. All saved persons are priests in their own right as they have a direct line of communication with God.

ALL people are liars.

While you don't "need" a priest to communicate with God, you don't need a minister either. Catholics know this and pray all the time whether a priest is present or not. Almost every religion has religious leaders. Yours included. Most members of the congregation ask for the advice of their religious minister to help guide their thinking about matters of faith, morals, and spirituality. Your religion is no different.
What was your point?


You don't NEED a priest for confressions or to ask forgiveness of sins. Christians have the power to go straight to God via Jesus with these things. THAT is the point.

THAT is a nonsequeter. Catholics KNOW they have the power to go straight to God with these things. Your misunderstandings about the Catholic religion are serious. Let's consider the sacrament of confession since that seems to be what you are referring to.

The purpose of confession is to help people deal with the consequences of their sins. The priest doesn't just listen. Very often, he is able to provide advice on ways to avoid the same sins in the future, and to provide brief counseling to a person who is struggling to find a better path to walk in life. Furthermore, many people find it is a terrific comfort to hear somebody actually say the words, "Your sins are forgiven". And it is a comfort to many people to be helped to find ways to make reparations for sins. Confession is a service to the people. It is interesting how many people will pay thousands of dollars to see a psychiatrist for what Catholics can get free in Confession.
August 8th, 2009, 6:52 pm
Questioner
 
Location: Colorado

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