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Advancing Glaciers

by RebelSnake | Published on March 11th, 2007, 11:33 am | Science
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF1/102.html
http://www.climateark.org/articles/2001/3rd/scsufind.htm
http://www.usgs.gov/features/glaciers.html

Here are just three articles I found on advancing glaciers in spite of all the talk I hear of how "all" the glaciers around the world are supposed to be retreating.

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF15/1509.html

Here's an article I found that shows what happens when glaciers do retreat. Doesn't sound so globally threatening to me.
 
 
RebelSnake, your first two links go to the same article. Maybe you didn't read it, but it's full of info about receding glaciers, although it does state that a few of the glaciers in the Rocky Mountains may be growing. Besides, I've never heard anyone say that ALL glaciers would retreat. From what I've read, the terminus of thinning glaciers can stay at the same location for years while still losing thinckness. Besides that, global climate change will cause local variations, something one would expect in a system as large as the earth.


Here's an article I found that shows what happens when glaciers do retreat. Doesn't sound so globally threatening to me.


I agree that there will be benifits for some. Retreating glaciers expose ancient forests.
http://ring.uvic.ca/03dec04/news/glaciers.html

I think those dependant on water from glacier meltwater won't be so excited about the ancient forest, though. As the glaciers retreat, there will be less and less water and once a glacier is gone, so is the water. Forever.

I have to go to work now, but I'd be interested in knowing what populations depend on glaciers for water and how many rivers originate in glaciers. Any one care to check that out while I'm working today?

RebelSnake, this is the second forum where I've discussed global warming and have yet to be convinced there is much evidence against it. I truly am searching for the reality of it. I'm tired of it being politicized and would like to know what is happening to our home, so any non-wacko evidence for either side I will read. About the glaciers, though, a simple Google search will show that the majority of Earth's glaciers are retreating.
March 12th, 2007, 6:54 am
User avatar
Nfidel
 
There isn't any doubt that the world has warmed over the last hundred years (since the 'little Ice Age')

Some question why the recent high land temperature readings are not reflected in satellite temperature readings and question whether this represents genuine global warming.

Others question the relative contributions of the various climate inputs (or forcings)

Solar radiance is obviously one of these inputs.

No one could accuse James Hansen of being a 'Warming Denier' He has been criticised by some for being an alarmist and he campaigns strongly for CO2 reductions.

This paper is 9 years old, in it
James Hansen wrote:Although these forcings are not well-measured, it appears that the net climate forcing is probably much less than the greenhouse forcing. One implication of this is that a forcing such as solar irradiance is more important than one would surmise by simply comparing solar and greenhouse forcings.
Image

"not well-measured", "appears" and "probably" indicate that there is legitimate reason to go and measure them better. If the new measurements show that natural forcings are higher than previously thought, the authors need to have a hearing and not be treated as pariahs.

Scafetta and West wrote:The sun played a dominant role in climate change in the early past, as several empirical studies would suggest, and is still playing a significant, even if not a predominant role, during the last decades. The impact of solar variation on climate seems significantly stronger than predicted by some energy balance models…The significant discrepancy between empirical and theoretical model estimates might arise because the secular TSI [total solar irradiance] proxy reconstructions are disputed and/or because the empirical evidence deriving from the deconstruction of the surface temperature is deceptive for reasons unknown to us. Alternatively, the models might be inadequate because of the difficulty of modeling climate in general and a lack of knowledge of climate sensitivity to solar variations in particular
Scafetta, N., and B. J. West, 2006. Phenomenological solar contribution to the 1900-2000 global surface warming. Geophysical Research Letters, doi: 1029/2005GL025539.

The other area where there are legitimate questions is whether warming will be as universally bad or catastrophic as often claimed.
Image
March 12th, 2007, 10:54 am
User avatar
A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
I did a little looking around to see how receding glaciers might aversely affect specific populations. I found the text below at this link. Himalayan Glaciers and Rivers

The region’s agriculture and power generation are fully dependent on the freshwater supply fed by the discharges of the Himalayan glaciers. In the Ganga river only, the loss of glacier melt water would reduce July-September flows by two thirds, causing water shortage for 500 million people and 37% of India’s irrigated land.
March 12th, 2007, 9:03 pm
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Nfidel
 
Except...

That water is only available because of warming. The warming is melting the reservoir of 'fossil' water tied up in the glacier from the last ice age so more water is being released than comes down as precipitation.

If the world were cooling and the glacier advancing there would be less water released than precipitated. Once the glacier has melted, only the water precipitated is available - which is the same as if warming were reversed and the glacier was in balance.

Those 500 million people are living on borrowed water. They are 'doomed' whether the glacier melts completely or if mankind halts global warming.
March 12th, 2007, 9:26 pm
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A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
What aload of nonsense. It is not caused by man, we are told in the Bible that man will look with great perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea, this is after the abomination of desolation and written in Luke 21:25.

The only way to stop greenhouse emissions is to stop breathing, reduce our population and other ludicrus measures which will make no difference as it has nothing to do with co2 anyway.
April 11th, 2007, 2:25 am
7333mark
 
7333mark wrote:What aload of nonsense. It is not caused by man, we are told in the Bible that man will look with great perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea, this is after the <a href="http://jesus-survival.com/Abomination-desolation.htm ">abomination of desolation </a> and written in Luke 21:25.
The only way to stop greenhouse emissions is to stop breathing, reduce our population and other ludicrus measures which will make no difference as it has nothing to do with co2 anyway.

Now, does anybody still wonder why America is losing ground to other countries, and losing it seriously in the high tech industries? Kids in other industrialized and industrializing countries are learning biology, physics, mathematics, astronomy, and other sciences. Our kids are learning that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that God made greenhouse emissions. It is quite impossible for people who have retreated to the dark ages to compete in a world economy with other people who have a modern education.
April 11th, 2007, 12:55 pm
Questioner
 
Location: Colorado
7333mark wrote:What aload of nonsense. It is not caused by man, we are told in the Bible that man will look with great perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea, this is after the <a href="http://jesus-survival.com/Abomination-desolation.htm ">abomination of desolation </a> and written in Luke 21:25.

The only way to stop greenhouse emissions is to stop breathing, reduce our population and other ludicrus measures which will make no difference as it has nothing to do with co2 anyway.


Since you don't seem to have a clue as to what science is all about either get educated or shut the hell up.
April 11th, 2007, 2:01 pm
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RebelSnake
 
Location: Greensboro
Questioner wrote:Now, does anybody still wonder why America is losing ground to other countries, and losing it seriously in the high tech industries? Kids in other industrialized and industrializing countries are learning biology, physics, mathematics, astronomy, and other sciences. Our kids are learning that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that God made greenhouse emissions. It is quite impossible for people who have retreated to the dark ages to compete in a world economy with other people who have a modern education.

Survival of the fittest, you know. The Chinese, Indians and Europeans will be fighting over the corpse of our scientific legacy while our kids debate how many angels can dance on a pin tip. Unless we turn things around pretty drastically and quickly. Which really seems unlikely...
April 11th, 2007, 2:12 pm
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SouthernFriedInfidel
 
Location: 5th circle of hell -- actually not very crowded at the moment.
Amazing - the first article linked to here was written in 1976, long before any general concern or understanding about global warming.
December 19th, 2009, 2:33 am
davewyman
 
Some interesting stuff on the science channel lately about sun spots and their regular cycle. I was in and out of the room listening to as much of it as I could. But I missed any content they might have had on how active the sun spots are right now. Evidently the little ice age occurred at a time in the cycle in which there was almost no sun spot activity. Does anybody know if we are in a period of high sun spot activity now?
December 24th, 2009, 6:57 am
Questioner
 
Location: Colorado
Yes.
Sunspots have a fairly regular cycle but periodically they go through periods of very low activity e.g. the maunder minimum that resulted in the 'mini ice age' and the 'modern maximum peaked around 1950.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11509&start=4

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/ ... cle24.html
Image
This plot of sunspot numbers shows the measured peak of the last solar cycle (Solar Cycle 23) in blue and the predicted peak of the next solar cycle (24) in red. Credit: NOAA/Space Weather Prediction Center.


Image
Yearly-averaged sunspot numbers from 1610 to 2000. Researchers believe upcoming Solar Cycle 24 will be similar to the cycle that peaked in 1928, marked in red. Credit: NASA/MSFC
December 24th, 2009, 11:58 am
User avatar
A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
Oops! How embarrassing. Somehow in October I missed that entire discussion (probably because I was covering for myself and two other docs and working up to 16 hours a day). Worse, I didn't even check what was going on in my own state in Boulder. Anyway, AP, thanks for the info and reference to the discussion. If I understand the first chart correctly, we are in a cold snap right now, but the sunspot activity will increase over the next years leading to even higher earth temperatures.

A bit scary that, given the rate of glacier melt right now, which is dumping a lot of fresh water into the oceans. Won't that slow down the big ocean current that circulates warm water to the north? Hopefully, the world's engineers and scientists will figure out a way to get the energy we need to support this huge human population without producing so much CO2. What a sad epitaph for the human race if we go extinct because we destroyed our own climate. Of course, we won't be the first species to have done that. As I understand it, the first life forms' metabolism gave off oxygen as a waste product and ultimately poisoned themselves into oblivion in the high oxygen atmosphere they produced.
December 25th, 2009, 7:30 am
Questioner
 
Location: Colorado
Questioner wrote:Oops! How embarrassing. Somehow in October I missed that entire discussion (probably because I was covering for myself and two other docs and working up to 16 hours a day). Worse, I didn't even check what was going on in my own state in Boulder. Anyway, AP, thanks for the info and reference to the discussion. If I understand the first chart correctly, we are in a cold snap right now, but the sunspot activity will increase over the next years leading to even higher earth temperatures.

A bit scary that, given the rate of glacier melt right now, which is dumping a lot of fresh water into the oceans. Won't that slow down the big ocean current that circulates warm water to the north? Hopefully, the world's engineers and scientists will figure out a way to get the energy we need to support this huge human population without producing so much CO2. What a sad epitaph for the human race if we go extinct because we destroyed our own climate. Of course, we won't be the first species to have done that. As I understand it, the first life forms' metabolism gave off oxygen as a waste product and ultimately poisoned themselves into oblivion in the high oxygen atmosphere they produced.


If we experience global warming it won't be because something mankind has done or not done. Seriously folks, there is no evidence to support such a theory.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second,it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
December 25th, 2009, 9:05 am
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BecauseHeLives
 
BecauseHeLives wrote:
If we experience global warming it won't be because something mankind has done or not done. Seriously folks, there is no evidence to support such a theory.


Are you absolutely sure this is the truth?
December 25th, 2009, 10:40 am
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Nfidel
 
Nfidel wrote:Are you absolutely sure this is the truth?


Absolute Truth is great ain't it?
December 25th, 2009, 12:17 pm
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ecofox
 
ecofox wrote:
Nfidel wrote:Are you absolutely sure this is the truth?


Absolute Truth is great ain't it?

Really? The Bible covers global climate change and says man can't affect the climate? Aren't you supposed to be celebrating this holiday, the one that, if you are correct, disproves the point that abstinence is 100% effective?
December 25th, 2009, 12:30 pm
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Nfidel
 
Nfidel wrote:
ecofox wrote:
Nfidel wrote:Are you absolutely sure this is the truth?


Absolute Truth is great ain't it?

Really? The Bible covers global climate change and says man can't affect the climate? Aren't you supposed to be celebrating this holiday, the one that, if you are correct, disproves the point that abstinence is 100% effective?


Are Absolutely sure this is True?
December 25th, 2009, 1:27 pm
User avatar
ecofox
 
ecofox wrote:
Nfidel wrote:
ecofox wrote: the one that, if you are correct, disproves the point that abstinence is 100% effective?


Are Absolutely sure this is True?


Instead of answering a question, per your usual behavior, you ask another silly one. I suppose it is related to what I copied above. Ok, so let's get your opinion of this. If the virgin birth, as Christians believe it, really happened, then abstinence wasn't effective for Mary. That is, unless you're of the opinion that God has a penis, inserted it into Mary's immaculate vagina, ejaculated and withdrew, afterward repairing her hymen and making her once again a physical but not a moral virgin. Is there another scenario I've omitted?

I'm off for now. I've other family and friends to visit today. I hope that you too are spending the holidays with family and friends.
December 25th, 2009, 1:46 pm
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Nfidel
 

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